Hazardous Hurricane Ian Flood Cars For Sale

We all saw the images of the devastation caused by Hurricane Ian, including vehicles floating in flood waters. It’s estimated that over 358,000 vehicles were submerged – many of them in highly corrosive salt water.

Live far away from Florida? You may think you don’t have to worry about flood cars from Hurricane Ian showing up near you. But flood cars are often shipped to auctions in other states and end up all over the map. Many will be resold in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and the Carolinas. But others will be shipped to far-flung states. Flood car crooks target certain states because they have large car markets and can command higher prices. Like California, New York and Texas. Plus consumers there may not be on the lookout for flood cars, making them easy prey for scamsters.

New Cars Get Flooded Too

Even if you’re in the market for a new car, it’s important to be on high alert.

That’s because it’s not only used cars that get flooded. New cars that were submerged while parked on car lots at large, franchised new car dealerships are also declared a total loss. But that’s not the end of the road for those “brand new” cars, SUVs, and trucks. Instead of being crushed, water-logged cars are towed away and parked in row after row, covering acres of vacant land. They sit there with the sun beating down on them, causing mold, bacteria, and mildew to grow. Some are still festooned with seaweed and slathered in grime and slime.

Then they’re shipped to auction companies like Copart and Insurance Auto Auctions (IAA) that have ties to auto insurers. Copart and IAA brazenly trumpet the fact they have flood-damaged cars available. For example, on October 18, IAA offered 9,968 “Hurricane Ian” vehicles for sale. They sell them to the highest bidders, who can bid online. The buyers may be from distant states, or even other countries.

Unscrupulous characters buy flood cars at a discount, spiff them up, attempt to mask the musty odors, and quickly resell them. Car dealers are eager to snap them up. Then they sell them for top dollar, without any discount. That way, they not only make a fatter profit, they also are less likely to arouse suspicion that something’s wrong. If the car is marked down, buyers are more likely to be wary. In other words, the “normal” pricing is part of the deception.

Some car dealers sell severely damaged or flood cars as so-called “certified” vehicles, advertising that they passed a rigorous inspection and charging hefty markups. The bottom line: don’t trust any seller, whether they’re an individual or a car dealer. Check out the car yourself, before you buy.

Why avoid flood cars?

FLOOD CARS ARE UNSAFE

Flood cars are hazardous. Today’s cars are basically computers on wheels. All the sophisticated safety systems, including the braking, steering, stability control, and navigation features, are controlled by electronics and by millions of lines of computer code. Imagine dropping your personal computer into the ocean, and letting it soak. After it gets a dousing in salt water, even if you were able to start it up, the sensitive electronics are doomed to corrode.

FLOOD CARS ARE UNHEALTHY

Flood cars are harmful to your health. Besides being unsafe to drive, flood cars are hopelessly contaminated with spores, mold, bacteria, and various toxins. They’re prone to causing serious health problems, particularly for people with asthma, allergies, and compromised immune systems. Even if they’ve been cleaned up cosmetically and sprayed to mask the odors, they are basically rotting from the inside out.

FLOOD CARS ARE UNAFFORDABLE

Flood cars are inevitably going to have massive, expensive problems that defy repair. Worse, even if you pay extra to get a new or “nearly new” car with a warranty from the manufacturer, that warranty will be deemed to be void. Some consumers have found this out the hard way, paying top dollar for “new” vehicles that were submerged in a flood. They immediately experienced major problems. Then they were shocked and dismayed when the manufacturer refused to honor the warranty, citing the fact the car had been flooded and declared a total loss.

Extended service contracts are also void. Typically, service contracts exclude “pre-existing conditions” such as being wrecked or flooded. So you could end up paying a lot more for the coverage, but be unable to use it to cover expensive repairs.

If you try to resell the car, dealers or other consumers will most likely offer you far less than you paid, or still owe to a lender. Or they may flat-out refuse to buy it. Worst case scenario – you could get stuck with an expensive, unsafe lemon car you can’t drive, can’t fix, and can’t sell.

How to avoid flood cars

Don’t expect to find a mackerel on the manifold or a trout in the trunk. Scamsters are too smart for that. They scrub and clean the cars, spiffing them up cosmetically. They may remove the floor mats and even replace some of the upholstery. They spray cans of deodorizers in the interiors, to disguise unpleasant smells. So at first glance, the cars may appear pristine. But behind that appealing facade, they’re rotting from the inside out. So be sure to look deeper. The time to do this is BEFORE you agree to buy.

Here are steps you can take to stay safe and avoid hazardous flood cars and also steer clear of cars with deadly safety recall defects. To save you time and money, the easiest, least expensive steps are first. That way, you can eliminate the worst lemons before you spend more time or hard-earned dollars.

Step 1: Get the Vehicle Identification Number, or VIN. This is a unique number, usually 17 digits. It’s like the vehicle’s fingerprint. The VIN unlocks a treasure trove of information about a car’s past. Typically, the VIN is stamped on a small metal plate on the dashboard. It’s usually also on a sticker inside the driver door jamb, on the title, and on sales documents. It may also be displayed in ads.

Check FREE database of unsafe vehicles with deadly safety recall defects

Step 2: Enter the vehicle’s VIN at the website for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, here. This is quick, easy, and free. Auto manufacturers are required to provide information about deadly safety recall defects to this government website. If the vehicle has an unrepaired safety recall defect, it’s too risky to buy, even if it wasn’t flooded. When you check here first, you can save yourself from paying anything or taking any more time to look further.

Warning: The way auto manufacturers describe defects in their recall notices may make it seem like the defects are not a serious threat. But that can be deceiving. For example, a recall due to “floor mats” caused the tragic deaths of four members of a family in San Diego who were on their way to a soccer game when the defect caused the accelerator pedal to stick. BMW describes one recall defect as causing a “thermal event.” Translation: the car is prone to catching on fire, and bursting into flames.

Next: IF the vehicle passes the safety recall test

Step 3: Enter the VIN at the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System, or NMVTIS. This database of total loss vehicles is operated by the U.S. Department of Justice. All the U.S. states, except for Hawaii, participate and share data with NMVTIS. This is the best place to search next, specifically for total loss flood cars.

Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety sued the U.S. DOJ and won, compelling the DOJ to issue federal rules that require each of these businesses, in all 50 states, to report every vehicle under 5 model years old that they declare a total loss to NMVTIS, within 30 days (many report daily):

▪ Auto insurers
▪ Self-insured entities, including large auto dealership chains and rental car companies
▪ Salvage pools and salvage auctions, such as Copart and Insurance Auto Auctions
▪ Junkyards
▪ Auto recyclers
▪ Scrap vehicle shredders
▪ Scrap metal processors
▪ Vehicle remarketers

NMVTIS is the only database where insurers must report vehicles they declare a total loss, within 30 days, in order to comply with federal law. When it comes to total loss vehicles, NMVTIS tends to be more up-to-date and complete than other databases, and often captures total loss vehicles that other databases miss. That’s largely because totaled vehicles must be reported to NMVTIS – even if they are not considered a total loss under relatively weak state laws, which frequently allow hazardous totaled vehicles to go undetected.

The DOJ has approved over a dozen NMVTIS data providers who charge a small amount (usually less than $10) to access NMVTIS’ total loss data. This is less expensive than Carfax or Autocheck. So check here first. If the vehicle shows up in NMVTIS because it was a total loss, play it safe and reject it.

NMVTIS is a very valuable resource, but it has limits. What’s not necessarily included in NMVTIS?

▪ Older vehicles, 5 model years or older – they are not required to be reported, although some businesses report older vehicles voluntarily
▪ Vehicles that are severely damaged, but not declared a total loss

Plus – sometimes major companies violate federal law and fail to report total loss vehicles to NMVTIS. So even if a vehicle doesn’t show up in NMVTIS, it’s not necessarily a clean bill of health. It’s still really important to take the next steps and get a car that passes the “NMVTIS test” inspected by a trustworthy automotive expert you choose yourself, and also check out the car yourself, in person.

Next: Visual inspection and test drive

Step 4: Look carefully for tell-tale signs of flood damage, including:

• Silt or other residue in odd places, like under the floor mats, in crevices, in the trunk, and inside the wheel well
• Rust or signs of corrosion
• Fogging inside headlamps or taillights
• Water lines in the passenger cabin, engine compartment, or trunk
• Musty smell, particularly when you turn on the air conditioning or heat
• Heavy scents from air fresheners or cleaning solutions
• Mold or mildew
• Used cars with brand-new upholstery
• Stalling, difficulty starting, electrical glitches, or other driveability issues that act up during a test drive
• Warning lights that illuminate on the dashboard

Other tell-tale signs:

• Title document stamped with a “brand” that indicates the vehicle was “salvage,” “junk” “rebuildable,” “water/flood” “rebuilt” “water-damaged” or simply “flood”
• Seller who refuses to show you the vehicle’s title prior to sale, making lame excuses for not letting you look it over carefully before you buy
• Signs the title was altered. Some crooks use white-out to cover up the “flood” brand or literally punch holes in the title to remove the brand, using a hole punch
• Vehicles with titles from Florida or other states hit hard by Hurricane Ian

Step 5: IF the car passes all of those tests, then the last step is to get it inspected by a trustworthy automotive technician you choose and pay for yourself. Do NOT rely on the seller to give you an honest inspection report. Many dealers advertise they only sell cars that pass their “150 point” or “172 point” inspection. This is designed to keep you from getting your own inspection done.

But they fail to fix deadly safety recall defects, and may also lie about flood damage. They count on the fact that most of their victims won’t bother to sue, and if they do, they can force them to submit to arbitration – a rigged system paid for by car dealers where victims almost always lose.

Here’s a good resource for finding a trustworthy, qualified automotive technician, based on ratings provided by other car buyers and vehicle owners: Mechanics Files

Usually, it costs about $100 for a thorough inspection. Look for auto techs who have been in business a long time and consistently receive top ratings. Ideally, they should be expert in repairing and inspecting the same brand / make that you are interested in buying. That way, they may also be able to tell you about problems you can expect that are common to that particular vehicle, and how much it would cost to fix them. Ask the technician if they would be willing to work with you and the seller to inspect the car where it’s located, using diagnostic tools that are portable. Unless they have something to hide, the seller should be willing to cooperate with you to get the inspection done.

More tips for avoiding flood car headaches:

Beware of “title washing.”

Crooked car dealers and others who traffic in flood cars sometimes engage in an illegal practice known as “title washing” to make it easier to sell severely damaged vehicles to unsuspecting car buyers. The crooks exploit loopholes in state laws to obtain supposedly “clean” titles, erasing title brands such as “salvage” or “flood.”

NMVTIS makes it more difficult for crooks to get away with laundering car titles across state lines. But it still happens.

Some states have a reputation for being title-washing states. Sleazy car dealers send titles with a “flood” brand to one of those states and within weeks, they obtain clean titles. Presto! Now they can advertise those dangerous cars as having “clean” or “clear” titles, show prospective buyers a “clean” title, and charge top dollar. The cars may never actually leave Florida, but now they have new, “clean” titles from another state.

For example, the office of Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro cracked down on a title washing fraud ring that allegedly involved car dealers and companies in multiple states.

What about vehicle history reports from Carfax or Autocheck?

Sometimes obtaining a vehicle history report from Carfax or Autocheck can tell you more useful information about the vehicle’s history. For example, Carfax may have information about odometer readings, prior repairs, airbag deployments, and safety recalls, and may also show when a vehicle was sold before. In general, the more you find out about a vehicle’s history, the better. But….

Warning!

Carfax and Autocheck are notorious among auto fraud experts for being unreliable. Both databases tend to have a lot of holes. Many consumers complain they were shown a “clean” Carfax when they bought their car, then found out about a prior wreck or flood damage that didn’t show up until after it was too late.

Plus Carfax and Autocheck slip disclaimers into the fine print, aimed at taking away your rights. Their “buyback guarantees” are extremely difficult to enforce.

Bottom line: Vehicle history reports are definitely NOT a substitute for a personal inspection and an inspection by a trustworthy automotive expert you choose yourself.

What if you already bought a flood car?

If you find out that someone already sold you a flood car, get advice from an experienced auto fraud attorney. Even if it was sold “AS IS,” you may have protection under your state’s consumer protection laws, such as laws against committing fraud, engaging in unfair or deceptive acts or practices, or violating an implied warranty. The way the vehicle was advertised and what you were led to believe about the vehicle’s condition when you were shopping may be major factors in whether you have a good case. The website for the National Association of Consumer Advocates is a good resource for finding an auto fraud expert in your state.

What’s the absolute worst car dealer scam?

Featured

At a time when the price of used cars is skyrocketing, and many people are flocking to buy used cars to reduce the risks of exposure to Covid posed by public transportation, are consumers getting what they are paying for? 

Unfortunately, many of them are being cheated, to the tune of thousands of dollars. Their lives are also often at risk, and tragically, some used car buyers and their families and friends are being injured or killed.

According to the Consumer Federation of America’s 2021 Annual Nation’s Top 10 Consumer Complaints, auto transactions top the list, leading to more consumer gripes to state and local consumer protection agencies than any other product or type of transaction. It’s been the same for a long time, year after year.

These days, American car buyers are paying more, and being treated worse.

Car dealers routinely rip off consumers in numerous ways. Like:

  • Advertising cars at one price — then after you are on the lot, charging double, or more, particularly if the dealer employs “e-contracting”
  • Forging signatures on documents
  • Selling junky cars that break down soon after you buy them
  • Selling cars that fail to pass emissions tests, and pollute the air we breathe
  • Selling dangerous cars that they know were severely wrecked, while claiming they have a “clean Carfax” so they must be OK
  • “Loan packing” — charging thousands of dollars extra for high-profit items such as worthless service contracts, GAP, theft etch, and other unwanted stuff
  • Overcharging for financing, in exchange for kickbacks from auto lenders
  • Racist financing and discriminating against people of color
  • Repossessing cars, even when the buyers are making all the payments in full and on time — basically, a form of car theft
  • Selling stolen vehicles
  • Selling cars with altered odometers, and lying about how many miles they’ve been driven
  • Charging bogus, inflated “document fees” or “concierge fees”
  • Yo-yo financing — getting you to sign a contract to buy a car on good terms, then after you drive off the lot, telling you that the contract isn’t valid, or the financing “fell through,” and demanding more — sometimes under threat of arrest for “auto theft”

All of those scams are costly and risky for car buyers, especially car buyers who are from communities of color.

But the absolute worst car dealer rip-off of all is charging consumers extra for dangerous, potentially deadly unrepaired recalled cars.

It’s not only corner car lots who are foisting off seriously defective deathtraps onto used car buyers, for top dollar. It’s also huge conglomerates like CarMax and even their competitors at online “disrupters” Vroom and Carvana, who all claim their vehicles have passed a thorough inspection, but fail to get the free repairs done to fix hazardous safety recall defects that maim or kill people.

How can a car that is so defective, it’s prone to catching on fire while parked in your driveway, pass any inspection? Or a car with bad brakes that fail?  Or with a steering wheel that may come off in your hands? What kind of inspection is it, that fails to catch and fix the safety defects that are likely to kill you?

Making this outrageous scam even worse, the perpetrators of this scam claim they “disclosed” that the vehicle had an “open recall,” attempting to shift the blame — and any legal liability — onto their victims.  Of course, they know that hardly anyone reads those “disclosures,” especially when they’re hidden in a huge stack of 30 + documents that you have to sign. 

And of course, the “disclosures” are usually only in English, and don’t really convey what’s at stake. There’s no skull and crossbones. Just a lot of long-winded, legalistic jargon.

Please don’t fall for this scam. Be sure any car you buy is actually safe, before you drive it away.

Best of all, don’t even set foot on a car dealer’s lot. Experts are sharing their 12 step-by-step tips for how to buy a safe, reliable vehicle that’s free from deadly safety recall defects, for a lot less than a car dealer would charge: 12 Easy Tips from auto experts

Stay safe and save not only your $$, but also your life!!!!!

Too Risky: Buying A Car from a Dealer can Ruin Your Life

The car dealership looks like a gleaming palace. But what is really happening inside?

Some car dealers sell vehicles they don’t own. They also fail to pay off the loans on vehicles that are traded in. They ruin their customers credit and sometimes also their lives.

Robert Anglen, consumer reporter for the Arizona Republic, investigated dealerships in Arizona that ripped off consumers in multiple states, leaving them with faulty vehicles and stuck trying to make loan payments on two cars — even ones they had traded in, that were sold to someone else. Here’s what he found:

Read more: Arizona dealer didn’t pay off trades or transfer titles

How can you avoid become a victim of an unscrupulous auto dealer?  CARS tips for how to get a good deal on a safe, reliable used car, without having to set foot on a car dealer’s lot:  How to Buy a Used Car, Painlessly.

Federal Judge warns children not to buy from CarMax

During a hearing before the U.S. Federal District Court in Pasadena, California, Federal Judge Wardlaw tells CarMax’s attorney, “I have to tell you, having read what CarMax does, I have told both my children, don’t you buy a ‘certified’ car from CarMax.”

Watch video: Judge warns children about CarMax

Did CarMax sell you an unsafe recalled car?  We want to hear your story.  The only way to get CarMax to stop selling cars with lethal safety defects is for courageous consumers to speak up.  Contact us at:

http://carconsumers.org/contact.htm

 

Buy a car – surrender your rights?

One more reason not to buy a car from a car dealer:  when you do, they force you to give up your right to sue them if they cheat you.  So say good-bye to being able to take advantage of consumer protection laws.

Think a dealer wouldn’t dare roll back the odometer? Think again. They just slip a clause in your contract that says you can’t sue. Then when you find out your low-mileage car actually has over 100,000 extra miles that “disappeared” from the odometer — good luck trying to sue them under the Federal Odometer Act.

Car dealers used to face tough sanctions, including punitive damages, for ripping off consumers. But with rare exceptions, those days are gone.  That’s because car dealers insert “arbitration” clauses into their contracts. Then, after you’ve been shopping, test-driving cars, and negotiating for an average of 4 hours, they shove a stack of documents across a desk and tell you to “sign here, here and here.”

What they don’t tell you is that when you sign, you are giving up your rights under state and federal consumer protection laws. So forget hauling them before a judge or jury, who can throw the book at them. Instead, if you get any hearing at all, it’s before an “arbitrator” whose company just happens to be paid by — you guessed it — the dealer.

Under rulings by the Republican majority on the U.S. Supreme Court, this is perfectly legal.

Ironically, the dealers got a special exemption from Congress that allows them to sue anyone they please. They’re free to use the courts. But you can’t.

Evidence is mounting about how biased and unfair arbitration is. Check out this new report, issued by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. No wonder car dealers HATE this consumer watchdog agency. It shows how rigged the game is, when you buy a car from a dealer:

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau report

Don’t end up like Jon Perz, who has been waiting over 7 years for justice, after a car dealer in San Diego sold him an unsafe car.

YouTube Video of used car nightmare — over 1.3 million views

Be a smart shopper. Check out CARS’ car-buying tips for how to get a safe, reliable used car — without having the hassle or risk of buying from a dealer:

CARS Used Car Buying Tips

Happy, safe car shopping!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more reason NOT to buy a car from a car dealer

Even the auto dealers themselves have to admit:  many car buyers dread buying cars from auto dealers. Young people are especially wary.  And for good reason.

Car dealers keep selling unsafe, recalled used cars to consumers, putting them, their friends and family, and other motorists at risk of death or serious, debilitating injuries.

And as if that weren’t bad enough, they also insist that you surrender your Constitutional rights as part of the price of buying a car from them.

Good luck trying to buy a car from a dealer without a “gotcha” clause hidden in the contract that says you give up your Constitutional right to take them to court, and benefit from  our nation’s hard-won consumer protection laws. Like laws against rolling back odometers, selling “junk” cars that are advertised as being “in mint condition,” or engaging in other forms of cheating, lying, fraud, and thievery.

And get this:  the dealers got a special exemption from Congress — just for car dealers —  that allows them to keep THEIR Constitutional rights. So they can take anyone they want to court, and use the laws that benefit THEM. But they killed a bill that would have protected YOU from losing your rights when you sign on the dotted line to buy a car from them.

If you’re fed up with car dealers and their scams, check this out:

Cleveland Plain Dealer: Arbitration: What you don’t know about fine print can hurt you

And let your local car dealers know you’re not buying from them until they clean up their act, and you don’t have to surrender your rights to buy a car from them.

CarMax sells recalled used cars

Auto retailing giant CarMax advertises that all of its cars have to pass a rigorous, 125+ point inspection before they are fit to sell. But ever wonder if that inspection includes safety recalls?

Huh?  How could a car pass CarMax’s rigorous inspection and still have a major safety defect that makes it so unsafe, it would be a violation of federal law for it to be sold as a “new” car?

Wellll…  that’s a very good question.

Keep in mind — CarMax recently played a major role in killing first-in-the-nation legislation in California that was backed by consumer and safety organizations, to make it illegal for car dealers to sell recalled used cars to consumers.  Their excuse?  They are not authorized to perform safety recall repairs.

That’s right. Auto manufacturers don’t allow independent dealers like CarMax to perform safety recalls because under federal law, the manufacturers are responsible for ensuring that the recall repairs are done properly.  Which makes sense, since the manufacturer is the one that made the defective product, issues the recall, and oversees the repairs.  Ultimately, if the safety recall repair is inadequate, or isn’t performed properly, and someone is killed or injured as a result, the manufacturer is the one who is held liable. Witness what’s going on with GM.

So watch out. CarMax thinks it’s OK to sell unsafe, recalled used cars to consumers simply because they’re not authorized by auto manufacturers to perform safety recall repairs. Seriously.

See for yourself. Here’s the testimony of CarMax’s Counsel against the California auto safety recall bill:

CarMax:  Don’t make us stop selling unsafe, recalled used cars

Bottom line:  Don’t get snookered by those CarMax ads claiming that all their cars are “CarMax Quality Certified” and passed a “125+ point” inspection.  Unless you don’t mind the fact it could be a certified 125+ point deathtrap.

Did CarMax sell you a recalled used car? CARS wants to hear your story. Here’s how to get in touch:

Contact CARS

P.S. Even if you think your CarMax car is safe, it’s a good idea to check the manufacturer’s website for safety recalls, and enter in your car’s Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

Federal Trade Commission — private car sellers often give “more reliable information” than auto dealers

We now have an official answer to the age-old question: Are you more likely to be misled if you buy a car from a private individual or from a used car dealer? Obviously, dealers want you to buy from them — and these days, they are boasting about their record profits.

But — auto sales remain the leading cause of consumer complaints to state and local consumer protection agencies. Year after year, new and used car dealers also rank #1 among the most-complained about businesses, in terms of consumer complaints to the Better Business Bureau.

To top it all off, the leading federal consumer protection agency for America’s car buyers recently stated flat-out that you’re more likely to get accurate information about a used car’s history when you buy a car from another consumer, rather than a used car dealer.

Here’s what the Federal Trade Commission stated:

“The Commission concluded that the [Used Car] Rule should not extend to private or casual sellers of used cars because the record failed to support a finding that deceptive sales practices were prevalent in private sales. The Commission noted that in private sales, prospective customers often receive more reliable information about mechanical condition than they do from dealers…” **

    ** Federal Register, Vol. 77, No. 242, Dec. 17, 2012, pages 74761-74762.

Of course, you still have to be on the lookout for “curbstoners” — dealers masquerading as consumers. Be sure to insist on seeing the title and registration, and past work orders from repairs, and make sure that the names on the documents match the seller’s name.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS insist on getting the car inspected by an independent, reliable, trustworthy mechanic / body shop of YOUR choosing, before you buy. A good place to find an expert to perform the inspection? Car Talk’s Mechanics Files.

It’s a good idea to also check the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System and other vehicle history services before you buy. The more you know, the better. NEVER trust a car dealer to tell you the truth about a car.

Twelve tips for consumers on how to buy a safe, reliable used car — without being cheated by a shady car dealer:

CARS’ Twelve Tips for Used Car Buyers

Happy, safe car buying and Happy New Year!